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             DRAFT MINUTES

       July meeting held August 5, 2003 


MEMBERS PRESENT:      Jim Anderson, Dave Hamann, John Lowe, Jean Root

MEMBERS ABSENT:         Debra Wiedman-Clawson

OTHERS PRESENT:          John Ambrose, Planning Consultant

                                              Bob Hanvey, Township Supervisor

                                              Annette McNamara,  Zoning Administrator




John Lowe called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.

It was suggested to amend the agenda to review the Carsleys request for a Special Use Permit first.  

Discussion regarding legal consultant.  Review of July 7, 2003 Joint Meeting minutes.


Dave Hamann made a motion to amend the agenda as discussed.  Jean Root seconded. 

Motion carried 4-0.


In summary, the Carsleys would like to build an indoor arena and attach it to the existing barn. 

The Special Use Permit for a Commercial Stable will be to board and train horses on their existing 

18 ½ acres and would allow up to 20 horses.  At the present time they have four horses with four stalls.

The Livingston County Health Department (LCHD) has approved the use as long all buildings and manure

holding areas are 50 feet from their existing well. No additional sinks, toilets or showers will be installed.

John Lowe questioned when you have a commercial establishment and people are visiting on an all day

basis, are restroom facilities required.  John Ambrose stated no; the ordinance requires additional 

off-street parking. John Ambrose summarized his July 16, 2003 letter regarding Special Use Permit 

application for 2699 Cedar Lake Road.  There is no problem with the proposed size of the arena.

John Ambrose pointed out in the Commercial Stable Ordinance “Performance Standards” requirements 

number 8 and 9 are contradictory.  He suggested the ordinance be amended to delete item 9 and leave

number 8.  Section 6.12 E refers to height restrictions for barns.

After reviewing submitted supporting documentation for this proposal, John Ambrose recommended this 

Special Use Permit for a Commercial Stable be granted subject to three conditions:

      1. The Zoning Board of Appeals grants a variance for 39 feet for the south property line (A stable or arena shall be 

       located no closer than 200 feet from a property line.  The proposed structures are 161 feet from the property line.)

      2. The required the off-street parking spaces meet the requirements for off-street parking site development standards 

        as per Section 14.04 of the Township’s Zoning Ordinance.

     3.The applicant complies with all of the site requirements, buffering requirements and performance standards of 

       Section 17.28 of the Township’s Zoning Ordinance and as listed in John Ambrose review letter dated July 16, 2003.


John Lowe questioned the Carsleys regarding how many people would be involved?  Mrs. Carsley explained she will 

give individual pony lessons on an individual basis. There will not be large groups at the stable. The permit and acreage will 

allow for 20 horses yet the Carsleys do not for see having that many horses. Jean Root followed up with hours of 

operation and Mrs. Carsley stated if she were to board horses, hours of operation would be 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Jean Root 

asked if the intention was to board and charge for that boarding. Mrs. Carsley stated there would be a charge for feed.

Jim Anderson asked how many acres are fenced in. The Carsleys stated three acres. The remaining 15 acres are open 

pasture.  If the applicant wants to fence in more area they will not need approval from the Planning Commission. 

John Lowe questioned incorporating LCHD requirements into the Commercial Stable Special Use Permit Ordinance.

 What would preclude future owners or another applicant from holding group training sessions? 

 John Ambrose stated conditions can be placed in the Special Use Permit:

1.                  Have the permit administratively recertify once a year.

2.                  If problems arise the applicant must come before the Planning Commission to rectify.

John Ambrose suggested accepting the information received tonight and make a motion for a Public Hearing. 

 At the regular meeting following the public hearing the conditions can be made as part of the motion.The Planning Commission

 will make recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals. The Carsleys will then apply for a variance from the ZBA.

Jean Root made a motion to hold a Public Hearing for Majestic Oaks Stable Special Use Permit, Application #01-03, 

to be held on August 26, 2003 at 7:15 p.m.  Jim Anderson seconded.  Motion carried 4-0.


May 27, 2003 Regular Meeting. The following revisions were suggested:

-          Page 2, second paragraph should read, “Concerns regarding access to the development from Rubbins Road. 

The proposed plan in showing a berm and landscaping along Rubbins Road to make sure there is no access and no 

physical way for people to make access with the subdivision Knolls of Grass Lake. Boss Engineering will perform 

perks with the Livingston County Health Department (LCHD). The property has been perked on a random basis and 

Boss is comfortable with what was done, yet they are required to perk every lot on an Open Space site plan.”

-          Page 3, second paragraph, “serving” should be serve in first sentence

-          Page 3, fifth paragraph, last sentence, add not

-          Page 5, Motion for Preliminary Site Plan, last sentence, “Please note page six of the parallel plan. It was explained

 that was a note to township Board of Trustees to review and comment.

Jean Root made a motion to approve the May 27, 2003  Regular Meeting Minutes as amended.  Jim Anderson seconded. 

Motion carried 4-0.

June 24, 2003 Regular Meeting

Jean Root made a motion to approve the Regular Meeting minutes from June 24, 2003.  Jim Anderson seconded.  Motion carried 4-0.

  June 24, 2003 Public Hearing – Section 6.29 – Open Space Preservation

 John Lowe questioned John Ambrose regarding changes that have been made to the Open Space Preservation amendment

since the Public Hearing was held. John Ambrose stated, Mike Kehoe, Township Attorney, indicated another Public Hearing

 would need to be held if there were changes to language.

Dave Hamann made a motion to approve the June 24, 2003 Public Hearing minutes for Section 6.29, Open Space

 Preservation.  Jean Root seconded.  Motion carried 4-0.

June 24, 2003 Public Hearing – Section 6.19 B – Lots to Have Access

Jean Root made a motion to approve the Public Hearing minutes from June 24, 2003, 7:30 p.m., for Section 6.19 B – Lots

 to Have Access, as submitted.  Jim Anderson seconded. Motion carried 4-0.

June 24, 2003 Public Hearing – Howell Industrial Center. L.L.C. – Proposed Rezoning

Schonscheck, Inc. submitted new information and will be on the August 26, 2003 agenda. John Ambrose and Mike Kehoe

will review and comment on submittal.   Jean Root made a motion to approve the Public Hearing minutes of June 24, 2003 

at 7:30 p.m. for the rezoning of Howell Industrial Center, L.L.C., as submitted. Dave Hamann seconded.  

Motion carried 4-0.

June 24, 2003 Public Hearing – Darakjian Properties – Proposed Rezoning

Jean Root made a motion to approve the Public Hearing minutes from June 24, 2003, 7:58 p.m. for the rezoning of 

Darakjian Properties as submitted. Jim Anderson seconded. Motion carried 4-0.


Proposed Ordinance Amendments:

Section 6.19 B – Lots to Have Access

Jean Root made a motion to send Section 6.19 B, Lots to Have Access, to the Township Board for their approval.  Jim Anderson 

seconded. Motion carried 4-0.

Section 6.14 – Home Occupation

Jean Root made a motion to table Section 6.14, Home Occupation, until the Planning Commission’s next regularly scheduled meeting. 

Jim Anderson seconded. Motion carried 4-0.

Section 3.02 – Definition of Lot Lines and Section 6.20 F

This section was tabled at the last regular meeting. John Ambrose reviewed his letter dated May 17, 2003. The Planning Commission 

requested additions be added. 

-          Revision for #3 side lot line, public or private road needs to be added.

-          Same was true for item #4, Section 6.20 F item #4, – inclusion of public or private road.

Jean Root made a motion to hold the Public Hearing on September 23, 2003 at 7:15 p.m. for Section 3.02, Definition of Lot Lines,

Item 3, regarding side lot line and Section 6.20 F, Cul-de-sac for new item #4.  Dave Hamann seconded. Motion carried 4-0.

Section 6.29 Open Space Preservation

John Ambrose presented changes made per the July 7, 2003 Joint Meeting.  The new language is in bold.  New language gives the

Planning Commission the final say on how many lots will be accepted according to the parallel plan.  Jean Root asked if Mike Kehoe, 

Township Attorney recommendation from the Joint Meeting were incorporated?  Discussion ensued.  John Ambrose will make 

additional changes and present at the August 26, 2003 meeting. Jean Root made a motion to table Section 6.29, Open Space

Preservation, until the next Planning Commission meeting on August 26, 2003.  Jim Anderson seconded. Motion carried 4-0.

Site Plan Checklist

Discussion for the Site Plan Application included:

-          List criteria out of the ordinance and add box for “yes” or “no”.

-          Add criteria for a “Special Use Permit” and attach to application.

-          Jean Root suggested doing this for all agencies in order to provide a tracking mechanism detailing each stage.

-          John Ambrose suggested check boxes at bottom of application for Township use only to track progress.  

John Lowe asked for John Ambrose’s opinion regarding Marion Township Site Plan application at this point. John Ambrose suggested 

combining Marion Township’s with Genoa’s and look at redesigning the application. John Ambrose will bring revised application to the

next meeting.

John Lowe will ask ZBA to discuss their process and forms. The Site Plan is the main focus at this time.

Dave Hamann made a motion to table the Site Plan Checklist until the next meeting. Jim Anderson seconded. Motion carried 4-0.


Ken Tyler 5029 Bentley Lake Road asked if the Planning Commission has worked on amending the private road ordinance. 

John Lowe explained that it it will be addressed at a future meeting.

Highland Mobile Home Development

Bob Hanvey distributed a letter from the LCHD denying preliminary approval.  Bob Hanvey would like the Planning 

Commission to review the letter prior to approving Darakjian rezoning request.  Dave Hamann asked if the Planning 

Commission has approved the preliminary site plan.  Bob Hanvey replied yes, for 700 units.

Township Attorney  

Jean Root is concerned with consistency – not comfortable with learning from mistakes – we need to be aware and keep

track if it continues we need to address.

Dave Hamann – Township Board has made a motion to have John Ambrose and Mike Kehoe work more closely – 

Township Board is comfortable with that.

John Lowe - attorney working at a disadvantage by not attending meetings – working closer with John Ambrose may help 

with this.

John Ambrose – questioned if clear information is getting to the attorney?

Township Engineer

Bob Hanvey reported he is waiting for more information before making a determination on a new engineering firm.


Dave Hamann made a motion to adjourn at 10:40 p.m.  Jean Root seconded. Motion carried 4-0.